After previous comments in two posts I decided that creating a relevant post was the best way to interact on this topic. To see the original posts see here and here. I apologise for the length of this post, i try to keep my posts to a short length, but to think through and look at the passages and the argument i am addressing it would be near impossible to do it in a short post.
It has been brought to my attention that Israel, the nation, is chosen by God and is the only people who will be saved. Apparently Jesus and the New Testament writers were wrong in saying that salvation from God has been brought to the world for it only applies to the Jews. The comments then go on to assume this through an ethnic argument!!! The argument follows that there is a nation God hates, the descendants of Esau. The nation from Esau is where the caucasians come from therefore all caucasians deserve God’s wrath but everyone else is ok. Apparentally the scriptural basis for this is Malachi 1:3-4, Genesis 25:23-26, Job 30:30, Song of Solomon 1:5, Daniel 4:17, Job 30:1-8, Isaiah 14:21, Matthew 10:34, Jeremiah 4:7.
Below i will go through comment by comment as they entered this Site. I have sat down and given careful consideration to what has been said. I have tried not to judge J. Davis in what they say. But I have treated their comments with respect and carefully analyzed and commented on the points they have asked me about. I ask that whoever chimes in please read the whole post not just take things out of context, otherwise i will not allow your comment, also show me and others who comment the same consideration I have tried to show J. Davis i.e. respect and a fair hearing, prayerfully approaching what they are saying with respect to God and asking God to show what He has said in His Word.
The format of the post will be Bold Comment #, then red comments posted by J. Davis, then black text of my response on the topic. I have not misquoted J. Davis but if you want to check please check the comments as mentioned above.
Comment 1:
Are you an Israelite? What is a christian? There is only one group of people who the curses in Deuteronomy apply to. Read Deut. 28:68
I don’t know what your point is with this verse. From reading the context are you saying that Israelites have forsaken God and that is why they are spread through the world (28:64)?
I don’t think you are meaning this. But your question seems to be inferring why should I, a Christian, see meaning in the Old Testament for me today. If this is what you mean than you would say that “Bible doesn’t apply to Christians”. But I think this comes down to an issue of scriptural integrity.
Firstly scripture is written in history. This means that there is a historical context that needs to be considered with any text. We cannot forget the historical meaning of a text for that is one of the intended reasons for its existence.
Example: Deuteronomy is obviously written to Israel after their exodus from Egypt but before they went into the promised land. Therefore this letter has a historical context.
Secondly scripture holds eternal teaching. Even though there is historical context scripture is literature, it has teaching that extends to different contexts. So although some parts of scripture cannot be applied to the reader today it still has teaching that is eternal and applies to different contexts.
Example: When Moses was told to write down the ten Commandments (Exodus 34:1) this is applied directly to him. There is no way! This applies to anyone else. But overall the commandments from God are important, this is an eternal message.
If we apply this to the text you address than we see that the context starts at 28:58 with the command to be careful to do what God commands. The historical context is that Israel have been given the ten commandments to follow and obey, this also included other laws in which to follow. This was all to make Israel a Holy nation (Deut 4:5-8). But Israel is shown good consequences and bad consequences for following God’s laws, hence most of Deuteronomy. But to look specifically at 28:68 this is a direct historical call for Israel. It is not for the nations.
If we look at this verse in its eternal teaching than we still understand its meaning. God has given good laws, that can be followed or ignored. There are good consequences and bad consequences. If someone follows God’s laws than there are good consequences, life, and blessing. If someone disobeys God’s laws than there is bad consequences, death, and cursing. Now the problem from this text that is for both Jew and Christian is who can obey all of what God commands? Even Moses sinned, and was forbidden from entering into the promised land. Should we think we are better than Moses? But this is where the Christian sees Jesus as living the perfect submissive life under the Father. That He fulfills all the requirements that people could not do. As Hebrews says “For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is obligated to offer sacrifice for his own sins just as he does for those of the people. And no one takes this honor for himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was. So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.” (Heb 5:1–10 ESV)
But in answer to your original question I am a True Israelite through Jesus Christ, see argument below.
Comment 2:
“I hate to break it to you but, “salvation is of the Jews” John 4:22”
Concerning your quote of John 4, it comes in the context of a discussion between Jesus and a Samaritan woman. In this discussion the point is the place of worship of God (verse 20). Jesus then turns to the woman and says that the actual problem is that the Samaritans don’t know God (verse 21-24). This is rather odd especially since J. Davis suggests that salvation is only for the Jews. The Samaritans are Jews! They are apart of the fallen Northern Kingdom. But Jesus’ point is that they have not held to the knowledge of God but denied certain parts of revealed knowledge. Therefore Jesus’ comment is they do not worship God at all! The woman’s response is that the Messiah will explain all things (v. 25), therefore salvation will be made known to all people. Jesus responds “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.” (v. 26). Jesus is the Messiah that brings knowledge of salvation to all people. This is shown as the end of the passage. Jesus taught the Samaritans over 2 days, at the end of those days they proclaim “we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.” (v. 43) This indeed fits the motif of the gospel according to John. As we look at John 20:30-31, the purpose statement of John, life is found by knowing Jesus. The purpose of the book then is that salvation is for any person, it is not specific to a certain person (i.e. Jew or gentile, black or white).
Another point to address in John 4 is the worship of God in spirit. Jesus’ comments in John 4:23-24 address a new type of worship. For the Old type of worship is not a true reflection of the state of a person. Consider the vain offerings (1 Samuel 15:22, Hosea 6:6). God requires righteousness (Psalm 1:5,6). God doesn’t see Israel’s worship of God by obedience to special days as true (Isaiah 58). Jesus is now saying true worship of God is done in spirit. How is this possible? How can any person worship in spirit? Through knowing Jesus and being born again through the work of God as the Spirit then you can truly worship God (John 3:1-15).
Now regarding the phrase you quoted. The greek (ὅτι ἡ σωτηρία ἐκ τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἐστίν) shows that the genitive preposition ek is being used as a genitive of origin. This in the context means that salvation originates from the Jews. Yes, indeed, salvation is from the Jews as knowledge of God starts with the proclamation of God revealed. Obviously the Jews were addressed by God, but not to be hidden from the rest of creation. God is the God of all creation. He reveals himself to His creation through the Jews by the Old Testament Scriptures, then the highlight of His revelation is in His manifestation in the flesh as Jesus. This was proclaimed through the nations through the Apostles. Therefore when Jesus says salvation is from/of the Jews He is stating the Jews were given the message of salvation from God to be proclaimed to the nations, but this is a continual proclamation not just a once off.
“You can only be born a Iraelite. Romans 9:3-5.”
Now lets turn to Romans. The argument does not stop at verse 5, rather Paul continues his line of thought with the conjunction “But” (ESV) or “not” (KJV). The argument of Paul is that salvation is not for the nation Israel but for those who are chosen by God. Starting his argument Paul is anguished because he grew up under the Law, believing that Jews alone were saved. But in Christ he now speaks knowing the contrary. This revelation from God has provided anguish because he knows the truth that God chooses his people. “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” (v.6). Paul then addresses this as being justice. It would be easy to see it as injustice but Paul corrects the Jewish thought that Gentiles cannot be saved. He appeals to God’s choice as creator. For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:15). Then Paul states that God says he has chosen Gentiles as well as Jews. Quoting from Hosea 2:23, Hosea 1:10 ““Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”” (Rom 9:25–26 ESV). Lastly Paul lays the last nail in the coffin by saying some of Israel lost their salvation which they should have received because “they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”” (Rom 9:32–33 ESV). The funny thing is that Paul quotes Isaiah 28:16 and Psalm 118:22 to back his claim. This is also Peter’s point when he claims Jesus to be the stumbling block of the Jews and Gentiles. “As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.” (1 Pet 2:4–10 ESV). The argument of Paul and Peter is that through faith in Jesus you are grafted into the vine (i.e. Israel) and then those who believe in Jesus are True Israel. As Paul again argues in Romans “I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.” And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them; let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever.” So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? If the dough offered as first fruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.” (Rom 11:1–36 ESV)
“Do not waste any more of your precious time trying to convert people to something that you don’t even understand. Revelation 12:9 “called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:” The deception was the teaching that Jesus is here to save the whole world. Just to show you one of the heathen customs I know you yourself follow Read Jeremiah 10:3-4. Sorry to break this to you, actually I happy.”
Regarding your statement before I move onto your quoting of Revelation. I do not believe I am converting anyone by using this site. As I am sharing my thoughts and the things I am learning from God speaking to me! As for me not understanding what I am learning and know, you later say I am educated! Also as far as not understanding what I am talking about, you are making a personal attack on my understanding, which until now you don’t really give me an opportunity to engage with you as you flood my site with comments without pursuing a conversation you turn it into spam! As I said earlier if you want mindless babble you have come to the wrong place. Even as I type this response to you, you continue to flood mindless thoughts on this site.
Now you use this presupposition to assume that I am of the Devil, deceiving the world! Now you are using a part of scripture that talks about Jesus being the victor over Satan (Rev 12:17 cf. Rev 20:10-11) to say that I am bringing a heathen custom into the discussion. Well if God says the world is saved through His choice, which is Him coming as a man as Jesus to die and rise again being the perfect sacrifice to redeem mankind from sin. As Jesus redeems mankind to God the writer of Hebrews rightly says, “For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin. Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” (Heb 10:1–22 ESV).
Now as far as you are assuming that this is a teaching of the nations (which you say quoting Jeremiah), well this came from the Jews! The nations don’t all believe it. In fact there are not too many that actually do. It is not a teaching joined or should be joined to a nation. Except to the nation of God’s people that he has chosen! Thank you for being happy to break this assurance of my faith to me!
“If I still have your attention read Exodus 34-7, Revelation 13:9-10, and Habakkuk 2:3.”
What is your point?
Comment 3:
“Phillipians 3:4, “of the stock of Israel” This is Paul speaking. “
Again this is taken out of context. For Paul in Philippians 3:4-6 is speaking irony. If salvation was to be found as a Jew than he would be the example of great obedience under the Law. But as Paul goes on to say “I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord.” (Phil 3:8 ESV). This is so that he may have salvation and be resurrected from the dead – “that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead” (Phil 3:10–11 ESV). The point is salvation is only through Jesus Christ.
“The promises were only made to the “house” of Judah and of Israel. Deuteronomy 10:15 “their SEED after them”. Psalm 147:19-20. verse 20. He had not dealt so with any other nation, and as for his judgements, THEY have not known them. Romans 9:3-5. “kinsmen according to the flesh”, “to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.” Romans 11:1 Paul says, “I am an Israelite, of the SEED of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin”.”
I refer to my points regarding Romans 9:3-5 above. The same point applies to this comment.
“Jesus specifically says, Saint John 4:22 “Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews” “
See above comments on this verse.
“and Matthew 15:24 “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the HOUSE of Israel”. I am sure you know what the word house means but for the sake of clarification it is household, family. “
The point of this text is salvation being made available to all nations. For the woman Jesus speaks to in this passage is a Canaanite, a gentile. As the conversation goes on Jesus is impressed (v.28) that she understands that even gentiles can know God and worship Him appropriately (v. 26) and he gives her a glimpse of the salvation God offers by healing her daughter. Now the gospel according to Matthew is known for its missionary view. In Matthew 28:16-20 Jesus Lord of all creation gives the disciples a mission to spread salvation to the earth, all nations! Therefore the work of Jesus was to start with Israel but it was to finish with the nations.
“The Holy Bible has only been meant for one group of people. It was for them to wake up and get the true understanding of the Holy Bible. How can you lead people to a God that you know nothing of. I guess you think we are suppose to love everyone right? James 4:4, just so you know enmity means hatred , please look it up and verify for yourself. 1 John 2:15, “love not the world”. There is no flaw, the only flaw is your miseducation.
Again this attack on me is unwarranted. But to please your supposed ‘fun’ in trying to derail the basis of faith in God. I will answer your questions.
I do know God in His revelation to mankind, through creation, the law, the prophets, the Apostles and most clearly through Himself manifest in flesh.
I don’t expect everyone to love one another. Especially when hardly anyone loves God. But it seems you have again assumed what I know and think I don’t have a theological understanding of sin or humanity. For the essential problem with people is there lack of love and obedience to God hence Genesis 3. Now James is actually agreeing that love of the world is in contrast to love towards God. James 4 and 1 John 2 are in agreement with one another and with the Christian faith. If you love God then you will not love the things of this world, i.e. the passions of this world, or the so called ‘god’s’ of this world or anything contrary to what God has commanded. In fact Jesus himself prays for Christians to withhold the threats of the world for believing in him. “I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.” (John 17:14–19 ESV). But as Jesus says in earlier in the Gospel according to John the world hated him first, that is why they will hate His disciples (John 15:18-24).
I refer you to God on my supposed miss education and my College.
I see you haven’t made any comments about Deuteronomy, why? Please feel free to reply and be enlightned….”
Please see above for this.
Comment 4:
Hey Dan if you found out you had no promise of salvation, how would you feel? Because there is a nation of people that the Most high hates. Do you know who these people are?
I would feel sad.
I don’t know how many ways you can say that I am stupid. I haven’t made any assumptions or claims about you yet. But it is getting hard to for me to see that earlier you said this wouldn’t be mindless babble. But if the attacks keep on coming I guess this proves my point that you were looking for an argument!
Please get your bible, I hope it is a KJV.
Why a KJV? Should it matter which version I use?
“Malachi 1:3-4, “indignation forever”. Genesis 25:23-26, 23 “two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be seperated”, 25 “and the first came out RED all over”. Job 30:30 “My skin is black”, Song of Solomon 1:5, “I am black, but comely”. Danisl 4:17, the basest of men was set up over this world. Job 30:1-8, the children of base men have him in derision. …..“Esau father of the edomites was given the land of Mt. Seir for his inheritance. Mt. Seir is in the Caucasus Mountain range, hence the word caucasian.”
Malachi is a great book. I enjoy much of the Old Testament because it gives me a knowledge of God and His ways. Here it does say that Edom, the descendants of Esau are enemies of God. But the funny thing is that although Edom is so greatly despised so are the offerings of Israel. The warning of Malachi is turn to God and don’t end up under the same judgment as Edom. This contrast is there for the reason to show Israel as having received grace from God that was not deserved.
Another interesting part of Malachi is that the nations will offer sacrifices to God and he will accept them but in contrast Israel’s offerings are not accepted (Malachi 1:10-11). These people will be considered apart of the righteous written in the book before God (Malachi 3:16-18).
Are you saying only Caucasians are from Edom? If so does that mean every African, African American, Islander, Asian and anyone that is not Caucasian is saved? Or Jewish? Are you denying the possibility that white people can be Jewish?
Job 30:30 can be understood that from Job’s disease he became black.
Song of Solomon should be understood within the context of 1:5-6. “I am very dark, but lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, like the tents of Kedar, like the curtains of Solomon. Do not gaze at me because I am dark, because the sun has looked upon me. My mother’s sons were angry with me; they made me keeper of the vineyards, but my own vineyard I have not kept!” (Song 1:5–6 ESV). The reason for the dark complexion is time working in the sun. This is unusual for a woman of Israel.
If you are quoting Daniel 4:17 to argue that base means white, than please consult the Hebrew text. According to the lexicon the word translated by the KJV as base is best understood as:
שפל adj. low —
1. low, in height, of vine, tree.
2. of a modest, unambitious kingdom; low in station.
3. humiliated.
4. lowly, as subst.
Given that the translation of the word ‘base’ as ‘lowly’ I don’t think we can understand this as a reference to the color of ones skin.
After looking through the Hebrew and several English translations it is not clear how to interpret Job 30:8! What seems best in the context of the passage is rather this translation: ‘Sons of senseless and nameless people, they were driven out of the land with whips.’ Although the opposite could be taken. But it is still unclear who the people are!
Considering your definition of Caucasian, it does hold to reason that it could possibly be defined as Edomites, but it is hard to say though, because it is a 18th C definition that is not a scientific term! It also doesn’t define the different areas that could contain white people.
Which leads me back to question what is the point of this exercise? If we really wanted to call a people by the name of their origin than lets look at Abraham the Chaldean! Genesis 11:31 tell us that Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldeans. In other words he is Arabic. Or we could say that the Babylonian brothers of Abraham attacked their kin folk latter on! Could this mean that Jews are really Babylonians, or maybe Chaldeans, and therefore not really a special nation? I do not expect you to agree, neither do I. For it is wrong to think this way. After all we see nations rise and fall all the time. Therefore it is wrong to associate one origin with another through time. Otherwise there is really no segregation at all between Jews and the rest of the world because we are all descendants of Adam. We could also say that Muslims and Jews are the same because they descend from Abraham. I know you would hate that, and it would be categorically wrong of me or anyone else to make such a claim. Therefore declaring all Caucasians to be descendants of Edom and therefore hated by God is a categorical mistake.
“Isaiah 14:21, “slaughter for his children”, Psalm 137:7-9. Yes judgement is at hand. Just like the Most high chosen people were punished for the iniquities of their fathers so will the children of Esau be punished.”
Forgiving obvious grammatical mistakes. I think you meant to say ‘just as God’s chosen people were punished’. Are you saying that even Jews will not pass judgment day? Or is there still hope of God redeeming the transgressor? For Israel and for the righteous this is the case. I agree Edom will be punished, especially for their rejection of God and also for their refusal to help their brother nation.
Matthew 10:34, Jeremiah 4:7, “destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way. I hope to get a reply from you Dan or anyone who reads this and is offended in any way.”
Again the New Testament text is saying more than you think it says. For Jesus is speaking that judgment and with it punishment will come on those who do not follow Jesus Hence verse 38-39. Jesus in this section addresses the division believing in Him causes. Just as Israel was hated among the nations, Christians are hated among the world. For their belief in Jesus as God, Christians will be driven out of home, country and any relationship that doesn’t accept Jesus as God, Lord, Christ, Messiah and Saviour. Also there is no life outside of Jesus (verse 39).
Yes there is judgment coming but it is not just against the nations, it is against all the world, for the whole world is sinful. But those who believe in Jesus will be saved. As the promises of Revelation and all apocalyptic literature look to the Son of Man, the Son of God, Jesus the descendant of David (Rev 22:16).
Answering your original question your comment does not discredit my hope of salvation is Jesus Christ.
Comment 5:
I hope that you have been looking at the scriptures that I have been giving you. It would behoove you to do so.
See above and below.
Dan do you know the end is hear? The time of woes have begun. So called christianity being taught by you heathens is a lie. Lace your boots up it’s about to get bad. Everything you were taught is a lie. We (Israelites) will be kings again and and you heathens will be destroyed or put into slavery, Isaiah 60:10-15.
I hope you are not saying what I think you are. Are you saying that you will be a King? That Israelites will be Kings? Wow. Must suck to be God isn’t he the king of Israel? The Kingdom belongs to God (Isaiah 60:14). God is the King over Israel (1 Samuel 8:5). There is no notion that Israelites should rule the kingdom and therefore cannot be kings. If we are heathens which is true for those who do not trust God and love God, than why does Isaiah say I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth (49:6). This is obviously still open to the world. As it is also written by Isaiah “It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Is 2:2–4 ESV)
So in answering your question yes I do know the end is near. “Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers,you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.” (1 Th 5:1–4 ESV). But what I am taught is not a lie but the truth and the truth shall set you free (John 8:32). But in that day there is hope for those who obtain salvation in Jesus Christ – “For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.” (1 Th 5:8–10 ESV)
1 Corinthians 14:33, The Most High is not the author of confusion.
Amen.
And if you respond, please respond with scriptures and not your thoughts. Isaiah 8:20.
See above and below.
Comment 6:
John 3:16 is the only verse you so called Christians know.
Wow seriously underestimated me and God who gifted me to know Him. I believe when I gave you this verse it came with the context it is written in! But so you can be assured I know more verses than that one.
Hezekiah prays for the saving knowledge of the LORD as God to go to the nations, why? So they may know Him and be saved by Him. “So now, O LORD our God, save us, please, from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you, O LORD, are God alone.”” (2 Kings 19:19 ESV)
Even the Psalmist sings about God’s salvation of the humble! “From the heavens you uttered judgment; the earth feared and was still, when God arose to establish judgment, to save all the humble of the earth. Selah” (Psa 76:8–9 ESV)
Isaiah prophesies of peace between the nations that draw to the saving presence of God! “It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it, and many peoples shall come, and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths.” For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Is 2:2–4 ESV)
Jesus Himself says that he came to save the lost! “For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”” (Luke 19:10 ESV) Wouldn’t you agree the nations are lost without God? Jesus comes to Israel to draw the Jews first but if they reject him the message will go to the nations! Hence the parable of the banquet. “When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, “Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!” But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’ And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. For I tell you,none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”” (Luke 14:15–24 ESV)
Paul explains that as the Jews rejected the message of salvation, God chose to spread it to the Gentiles. “So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!” (Rom 11:11–12 ESV)
Paul understands that no one can know God through worldly wisdom, but through God’s revelation of himself in the Law, Prophets, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ (which Paul preached). “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.” (1 Cor 1:21 ESV)
The basis of Paul’s message is this: “The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.” (1 Tim 1:15 ESV)
Here in Hebrews the writer neither calls for Jew over Gentile: “Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.” (Heb 5:7; 7:25 ESV)
The writer continues saying that Jesus will come to save those waiting for Him. “so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” (Heb 9:28 ESV)
“But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Rom 3:21–26 ESV)
“Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.” (Rom 4:9–12 ESV)
This is but a glimpse of what God has revealed.
Matthew 1:21, “save HIS people from their sins”. The sinners of HIS people.
Yes, HIS people. Who are His people? Is it Jew? Gentile? Or those who draw near to God in faith?
Jesus came first to the Jew to bring them what the law and the Prophets looked forward to. Jesus the Christ came telling people of the message of salvation through His life, death, and resurrection. The Law could not take care of the curse of sin, because it was continually needed, there was not a sacrifice that could deal fully with sin. We could also say that the Jews had discredited the use of the sacrifical system. So Jesus comes first to the Jews to proclaim God’s salvation from sin and death (the real enemy of the Jews and the world). But since they did not receive God’s salvation rather like the prophets they killed God. So the Apostles sent the message of Jesus to the nations. As Paul says he went first to the Jews in each area but they did not want the message he preached so he turns to the Gentiles. “When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”” (Acts 18:5–6 ESV)
And this goes back to the point you raised before (about Matthew 15), if Jesus first turned to the Jews than they did not receive it there are crumbs left that the gentiles (dogs) will be glad to lick up and receive.
Therefore yes Jesus went to His racial people first, the Jews, but He is also proclaimed among the Gentiles to untie True Israel in His body and blood for the salvation of God.
Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 11:3. Yes worlds with an “S”. The word world means cosmos which was used to describe a nation of people, use an entymolgy dictionary.
Now we come to a problem with the text and its interpretation. You can check the greek if you do not believe me. The word translated as ‘worlds’ is not from the same word that means cosmos! Please consult a lexicon for this for the word Cosmos is κόσμος. But the word we are engaging with in this passage is αἰών. Different words and they apply differently in different contexts. But so you know why the plural of αἰών has been treated as singular please read the following lexical information ( from: A GREEK – ENGLISH LEXICON of the NEW TESTAMENT and other EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERATURE. THIRD EDITION (BDAG) revised and edited by Frederick William Danker.THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PRESS | CHICAGO AND LONDON)
αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ (Hom.+; gener. ‘an extended period of time’, in var. senses)
1. a long period of time, without ref. to beginning or end,
a. of time gone by, the past, earliest times, readily suggesting a venerable or awesome eld οἱ ἅγιοι ἀπ᾿ αἰῶνος προφῆται the holy prophets fr. time immemorial (cp. Hes., Theog. 609; Περὶ ὕψους 34, 4 τοὺς ἀπ᾿ αἰ. ῥήτορας; Cass. Dio 63, 20 τῶν ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰ. Ῥωμαίων; IMagnMai 180, 4; SIG index; Gen 6:4; Tob 4:12; Sir 14:17; 51:8; En 14:1; 99:14; Jos., Bell. 1, 12; Just., D. 11, 1) Lk 1:70; Ac 3:21; make known from of old Ac 15:18; πρὸ παντὸς τ. αἰ. before time began Jd 25a (for the combination with πᾶς cp. Sallust. 20 p. 36, 5 τὸν πάντα αἰῶνα=through all eternity); pl. πρὸ τῶν αἰ. 1 Cor 2:7 (cp. Ps 54:20 θεὸς ὁ ὑπάρχων πρὸ τῶν αἰ. [PGM 4, 3067 ἀπὸ τ. ἱερῶν αἰώνων]); ἐξ αἰ. since the beginning D 16:4 (Diod. S. 1, 6, 3; 3, 20, 2; 4, 83, 3; 5, 2, 3; Sext. Emp., Math. 9, 62; OGI 669, 61; Philo, Somn. 1, 19; Jos., Bell. 5, 442; Sir 1:4; SibOr fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος). W. neg. foll. ἐκ τοῦ αἰῶνος οὐκ ἠκούσθη never has it been heard J 9:32.
b. of time to come which, if it has no end, is also known as eternity (so commonly in Gk. lit. Pla. et al.); εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα (since Isocr. 10, 62, also Diod. S. 1, 56, 1 εἰς τ. αἰ.=εἰς ἅπαντα τ. χρόνον; 4, 1, 4; SIG 814, 49 and OGI index VIII; POxy 41, 30=‘Long live the Caesars’; PGM 8, 33; 4, 1051 [εἰς αἰ.]; LXX; En 12:6; 102:3; PsSol 2:34, 37; ParJer 8:5; JosAs 15:3 εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα χρόνον 4:10 al. Jos., Ant. 7, 356 [εἰς αἰ.]) to eternity, eternally, in perpetuity: live J 6:51, 58; B 6:3; remain J 8:35ab; 12:34; 2 Cor 9:9 (Ps. 111:9); 1 Pt 1:23 v.l., 25 (Is 40:8); 1J 2:17; 2J 2; be with someone J 14:16. Be priest Hb 5:6; 6:20; 7:17, 21, 24, 28 (each Ps 109:4). Darkness reserved Jd 13. W. neg.=never, not at all, never again (Ps 124:1; Ezk 27:36 al.) Mt 21:19; Mk 3:29; 11:14; 1 Cor 8:13. ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX) 1 Cl 10:4 (Gen 13:15); Hv 2, 3, 3; s 9, 24, 4. In Johannine usage the term is used formulaically without emphasis on eternity (Lackeit [s. 4 below] 32f): never again thirst J 4:14; never see death 8:51f; cp. 11:26; never be lost 10:28; never (= by no means) 13:8. εἰς τὸν αἰ. τοῦ αἰῶνος (Ps 44:18; 82:18 al.) Hb 1:8 (Ps 44:7). ἕως αἰῶνος (LXX; PsSol 18:11) Lk 1:55 v.l. (for εἰς τὸν αἰ.); εἰς ἡμέραν αἰῶνος 2 Pt 3:18.—The pl. is also used (Emped., fgm. 129, 6 αἰῶνες=generations; Theocr. 16, 43 μακροὺς αἰῶνας=long periods of time; Philod. περὶ θεῶν 3 fgm. 84; Sext. Emp., Phys. 1, 62 εἰς αἰῶνας διαμένει; SibOr 3, 767; LXX, En; TestAbr B 7 p. 112, 3 [Stone p. 72].—B-D-F §141, 1), esp. in doxologies: εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας (Ps 60:5; 76:8) Mt 6:13 v.l.; Lk 1:33 (cp. Wsd 3:8); Hb 13:8. εἰς πάντας τοὺς αἰ. (Tob 13:4; Da 3:52b; En 9:4; SibOr 3, 50) Jd 25b. εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας to all eternity (cp. Ps 88:53) Ro 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor 11:31. αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰ. Ro 11:36; ᾧ κτλ. 16:27 (v.l. αὐτῷ). τὸ κράτος εἰς τοὺς αἰ. 1 Pt 5:11; more fully εἰς τοὺς αἰ. τῶν αἰώνων (Ps 83:5; GrBar 17:4; PGM 4, 1038; 22b, 15) for evermore in doxologies Ro 16:27 v.l.; Gal 1:5; Phil 4:20; 1 Ti 1:17; 2 Ti 4:18; Hb 13:21; 1 Pt 4:11; 5:11 v.l.; Rv 1:6, 18; 5:13; 7:12; 11:15 al. 1 Cl 20:12; 32:4; 38:4; 43:6; εἰς πάσας τὰς γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰ. Eph 3:21 (cp. Tob 1:4; 13:12; En 103:4; 104:5). Of God ὁ ζῶν εἰς τοὺς αἰ. (cp. Tob 13:2; Sir 18:1; Da 6:27 Theod.) Rv 4:9f; 10:6; 15:7; formulaically=eternal 14:11; 19:3; 20:10; 22:5.—κατὰ πρόθεσιν τῶν αἰώνων according to the eternal purpose Eph 3:11. All-inclusive ἀπὸ αἰώνων καὶ εἰς τ. αἰῶνας from (past) eternity to (future) eternity B 18:2 (cp. Ps 40:14 and Ps.-Aristot., De Mundo 7, 401a, 16 ἐξ αἰῶνος ἀτέρμονος εἰς ἕτερον αἰῶνα; M. Ant. 9, 28, 1 ἐξ αἰῶνος εἰς αἰῶνα; SibOr fgm. 1, 16 of God μόνος εἰς αἰῶνα κ. ἐξ αἰῶνος).
2. a segment of time as a particular unit of history, age
a. ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος (הָעוֹלָם הַזֶּה) the present age (nearing its end) (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 13, 15, in ref. to 1 Cor 3:18; s. Bousset, Rel. 243ff; Dalman, Worte 120ff; Schürer II 537f; NMessel, D. Einheitlichkeit d. jüd. Eschatol. 1915, 44–60) contrasted w. the age to come (Philo and Joseph. do not have the two aeons) Mt 12:32. A time of sin and misery Hv 1, 1, 8; s 3:1ff; ending of Mk in the Freer ms. 2; ἡ μέριμνα τοῦ αἰ. (v.l. + τούτου) the cares of the present age Mt 13:22; pl. cp. Mk 4:19. πλοῦτος earthly riches Hv 3, 6, 5. ματαιώματα vain, futile things Hm 9:4; s 5, 3, 6. πραγματεῖαι m 10, 1, 4. ἐπιθυμία m 11:8; s 6, 2, 3; 7:2; 8, 11, 3. πονηρία s 6, 1, 4. ἀπάται s 6, 3, 3 v.l. οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ αἰ. τούτου the children of this age, the people of the world (opp. children of light, enlightened ones) Lk 16:8; 20:34.—The earthly kingdoms βασιλεῖαι τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IRo 6:1. συσχηματίζεσθαι τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ be conformed to this world Ro 12:2. As well as everything non-Christian, it includes the striving after worldly wisdom: συζητητὴς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου searcher after the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 1:20. σοφία τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2:6. ἐν τῷ αἰ. τούτῳ 3:18 prob. belongs to what precedes=those who consider themselves wise in this age must become fools (in the estimation of this age). The ruler of this age is the devil: ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 2 Cor 4:4 (θεός 5). ἄρχων τοῦ αἰ. τούτου IEph 17:1; 19:1; IMg 1:3; ITr 4:2; IRo 7:1; IPhld 6:2; his subordinate spirits are the ἄρχοντες τοῦ αἰ. τούτου 1 Cor 2:6, 8 (ἄρχων 1c).—Also ὁ νῦν αἰών (Did., Gen. 148, 21): πλούσιοι ἐν τῷ νῦν αἰ. 1 Ti 6:17; ἀγαπᾶν τὸν νῦν αἰ. 2 Ti 4:10; Pol 9:2. Cp. Tit 2:12. Or (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 42, 30) ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐνεστώς the present age Gal 1:4 (cp. SIG 797, 9 [37 AD] αἰῶνος νῦν ἐνεστῶτος). The end of this period (cp. SibOr 3, 756 μέχρι τέρματος αἰῶνος) συντέλεια (τοῦ) αἰ. Mt 13:39f, 49; 24:3; 28:20 (cp. TestJob 4:6; TestBenj 11:3; JRobinson, Texts and Studies V introd. 86). συντέλεια τῶν αἰ. Hb 9:26; on GMary 463, 1 s. καιρός end.
b. ὁ αἰὼν μέλλων (הָעוֹלָם הַבָּא) the age to come, the Messianic period (on the expr. cp. Demosth. 18, 199; Hippocr., Ep. 10, 6 ὁ μ. αἰ.=the future, all future time; Ael. Aristid. 46 p. 310 D.: ἡ τοῦ παρελθόντος χρόνου μνεία κ. ὁ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος λόγος; Jos., Ant. 18, 287; Ar. 15, 3; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 24, 20; Did., Gen. 164, 2) in 2 Cl 6:3, cp. Hs 4:2ff, opposed to the αἰὼν οὗτος both in time and quality, cp. Mt 12:32; Eph 1:21; δυνάμεις μέλλοντος αἰ. Hb 6:5. Also αἰ. ἐκεῖνος: τοῦ αἰ. ἐκείνου τυχεῖν take part in the age to come Lk 20:35. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐρχόμενος Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30; Hs 4:2, 8. ὁ αἰ. ὁ ἐπερχόμενος Hv 4, 3, 5: pl. ἐν τοῖς αἰῶσιν τοῖς ἐπερχομένοις in the ages to come Eph 2:7. As a holy age ὁ ἅγιος αἰ. (opp. οὗτος ὁ κόσμος; cp. εἰς τὸν μείζονα αἰ. TestJob 47:3) B 10:11 and as a time of perfection αἰ. ἀλύπητος an age free from sorrow 2 Cl 19:4 (cp. αἰ. . . . τοῦ ἀπαραλλάκτου TestJob 33:5), while the present αἰών is an ‘aeon of pain’ (Slav. Enoch 65, 8).—The plurals 1 Cor 10:11 have been explained by some as referring to both ages, i.e. the end-point of the first and beginning of the second; this view urges that the earliest Christians believed that the two ages came together during their own lifetimes: we, upon whom {p. 33} the ends of the ages have come (JWeiss. A Greek would not refer to the beginning as τέλος. The Gordian knot has οὔτε τέλος οὔτε ἀρχή: Arrian, Anab. 2, 3, 7). But since τὰ τέλη can also mean ‘end’ in the singular (Ael. Aristid. 44, 17 K.=17 p. 406 D.: σώματος ἀρχαὶ κ. τέλη=‘beginning and end’; 39 p. 737 D.: τὰ τέλη . . . δράματος; Longus 1, 23, 1 ms. ἦρος τέλη; Vi. Thu. 2, 2 [=OxfT ΘΟΥΚΥΔΙΔΟΥ ΒΙΟΣ 2] τέλη τοῦ πολέμου; Aëtius, Eye Diseases p. 120, 25 Hirschb. after Galen: τὰ τέλη τ. λόγου=the close of the section; Philo, Virt. 182) and, on the other hand, the pl. αἰῶνες is often purely formal (s. above 1a and b, 2a at end) τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰ. can perh. be regarded as equal to τέλος αἰώνων (SibOr 8, 311)=the end of the age(s). Cp. TestLevi 14:1 ἐπὶ τὰ τέλη τῶν αἰώνων.—For the essential equivalence of sing. and pl. cp. Maximus Tyr. 14, 8b τὰ τῆς κολακείας τέλη beside τέλος τῆς σπουδῆς. Cp. also τέλος 5.
3. the world as a spatial concept, the world (αἰ. in sg. and pl. [B-D-F §141, 1]: Hippocr., Ep. 17, 34; Diod. S. 1, 1, 3 God rules ἅπαντα τὸν αἰῶνα; Ael. Aristid. 20, 13 K.=21 p. 434 D.: ἐκ τοῦ παντὸς αἰῶνος; Maximus Tyr. 11, 5e; IAndrosIsis, Cyrene 4 [103 AD] P. p. 129]; Ps 65:7; Ex 15:18 [cp. Philo, Plant. 47; 51]; Wsd 13:9; 14:6; 18:4; αἰῶνες οἱ κρείττονε Tat. 20:2) ApcPt 4:14. Created by God through the Son Hb 1:2; through God’s word 11:3. Hence God is βασιλεὺς τῶν αἰ. 1 Ti 1:17; Rv 15:3 (v.l. for ἐθνῶν); 1 Cl 61:2 (cp. PGM 12, 247 αἰώνων βασιλεῦ; Tob 13:7, 11, cp. AcPh 2 and 11 [Aa II/2, 2, 20 and 6, 9]); πατὴρ τῶν αἰ. 35:3 (cp. Just., A I, 41, 2; AcPh 144 [Aa II/2, 84, 9]); θεὸς τῶν αἰ. 55:6 (cp. Sir 36:17; ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰ.; En 1:4; PGM 4, 1163; TSchermann, Griech. Zauber-pap 1909, 23; AcJ 82 [Aa II/1, 191, 24f]). But many of these pass. may belong under 2.
4. the Aeon as a person, the Aeon (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 268 index under Aion, Taufe 391 index; Epict. 2, 5, 13 οὐ γάρ εἰμι αἰών, ἀλλ᾿ ἄνθρωπος=I am not a being that lasts forever, but a human being [and therefore I know that whatever is must pass away]; Mesomedes 1, 17=Coll. Alex. p. 197, 17; Simplicius in Epict. p. 81, 15 οἱ αἰῶνες beside the μήτηρ τῆς ζωῆς and the δημιουργός; En 9:4 κύριος τ. κυρίων καὶ θεὸς τ. θεῶν κ. βασιλεὺς τ. αἰώνων; PGM 4, 520; 1169; 2198; 2314; 3168; 5, 468; AcPh 132 [Aa II/2, 63, 5]; Kephal. I p. 24, 6; 45, 7) ὁ αἰ. τοῦ κόσμου τούτου Eph 2:2. The secret hidden from the Aeons Col 1:26; Eph 3:9 (Rtzst., Erlösungsmyst. 235f); IEph 19:2 (Rtzst. 86, 3); cp. 8:1 (Rtzst. 236, 2). Various other meanings have been suggested for these passages.—CLackeit, Aion I, diss. Königsbg. 1916; EBurton, ICC Gal 1921, 426–32; HJunker, Iran. Quellen d. hellenist. Aionvorstellung: Vortr. d. Bibl. Warburg I 1923, 125ff; ENorden, D. Geburt des Kindes 1924; MZepf, D. Gott Αιων in d. hellenist. Theologie: ARW 25, 1927, 225–44; ANock, HTR 27, 1934, 78–99=Essays I, ’72, 377–96; RLöwe, Kosmos u. Aion ’35; EOwen, αἰών and αἰώνιος: JTS 37, ’36, 265–83; 390–404; EJenni, Das Wort {oœlaœm im AT: ZAW 64, ’52, 197–248; 65, ’53, 1–35; KDeichgräber, RGG I3 193–95; HSasse, RAC I 193–204; MNilsson, Die Rel. in den gr. Zauberpapyri, K. humanist. Vetenskapssamfundets Lund II ’47/48, 81f; GJennings, A Survey of αιων and αιωνιος and their meaning in the NT, ’48; GStadtmüller, Aion: Saeculum 2, ’51, 315–20 (lit.); EDegani, ΑΙΩΝ da Omero ad Aristotele ’61 (s. Classen, Gnomon 34, ’62, 366–70; D.’s reply in RivFil 91, ’63, 104–10); MTreu, Griech. Ewigkeitswörter, Glotta 43, ’65, 1–24; JBarr, Biblical Words for Time2 ’69; OCullman, Christus u. die Zeit3 ’62.—B. 13. EDNT. DDD s.v. Aion. DELG. M-M. TW. Sv.
So as you can see the word is translated properly as a singular world meaning world! I will come back to address the etymological dictionary when I get to your later premise on Jesus.
Matthew 15:24, John 17:9. Christ doesn’t pray for the world, he is not sent but unto the LOST sheep of the HOUSE of Israel. (house = household, family) Acts 5:31, to give repentance to Israel. Acts 2:28. Acts 13:23.
Firstly Matthew 15 is not a prayer, we have already addressed this issue, but you are now misapplying it again. Now John 17 is a prayer so lets deal with that. Verse 9 says: “I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are your” (John 17:9–10 ESV) The those in this verse means the disciples. Later on Jesus says the ones he is praying for are in the world! “And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world,” (John 17:11 ESV) So no Jesus doesn’t pray for the world but the disciples in the world. Jesus continues to pray for the disciples who, received His word, that is the teaching of Jesus, because they are the ones God has given to Jesus to save and to give eternal life. John 17:20 continues Jesus’ prayer now for those who believe the witness the disciples. ““I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.” (John 17:20–23 ESV) This then goes on to be a prayer for the disciples and those who believe their witness concerning Jesus as the Christ who will be glorified. They will be joined with God, loved by God and raised to eternal life. So is Jesus praying for you? I know He was praying for me. But I do not brag about this as if I made it happen, but rather I am grateful for the gift God has given me. My prayer also is for those who believe in Jesus as the Christ. I pray also for you. I ask God that if you haven’t believed Jesus as the Christ, that He will soften your heart so that you will. If you have than I thank God for not hardening your heart like Pharoah’s.
Let us look at the story as a whole in Acts 5:
Acts 5:17 But the high priest rose up, and all who were with him (that is, the party of the Sadducees), and filled with jealousy 18 they arrested the apostles and put them in the public prison. 19 But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out, and said, 20 “Go and stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this Life.” 21 And when they heard this, they entered the temple at daybreak and began to teach.
Now we see that a leader of the Jews was ‘jealous’ of the preaching of Peter and the Apostles. So he imprisoned them. But an angel from God came and let them out so they could keep preaching words of life to all, the word people is not exclusive! But they chose to go back to the temple to teach it first to the Jews.
Now when the high priest came, and those who were with him, they called together the council and all the senate of the people of Israel and sent to the prison to have them brought. 22 But when the officers came, they did not find them in the prison, so they returned and reported, 23 “We found the prison securely locked and the guards standing at the doors, but when we opened them we found no one inside.” 24 Now when the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these words, they were greatly perplexed about them, wondering what this would come to. 25 And someone came and told them, “Look! The men whom you put in prison are standing in the temple and teaching the people.” 26 Then the captain with the officers went and brought them, but not by force, for they were afraid of being stoned by the people.
Acts 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28 saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. 31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
SO in the context the audience is Jewish, Peter’s point is to tell the Jews salvation has come, so LISTEN to the message of salvation through Jesus the CHRIST. Now the Spirit given to kings and prophets in the Old Testament. So here Peter is calling for the Jews to see the authority of their words because it is the Spirit’s work. So the Jews are denying God’s Spirit at work as we see from their imprisoning of the Apostles and as we see below.
Acts 5:33 When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them. 34 But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. 36 For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37 After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered. 38 So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; 39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice, 40 and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41 Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. 42 And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
So if Peter is addressing Jews in this speech it is normal to say that he was preaching salvation to Jews. But the question of the text is do the Jews believe that Jesus is the Christ and therefore Saviour? This question is asked all through the New Testament and as I have pointed out it is not exclusive but is a question for all people.
Concerning Acts 2:28 you further prove my point, for even David proclaims Jesus as the Lord!
Lets read this in the context to make sure I am right.
““Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. For David says concerning him, “‘I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken; therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; my flesh also will dwell in hope. For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption. You have made known to me the paths of life; you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’ “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.’ Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”” (Acts 2:22–36 ESV)
Well the point here is that the Apostle is addressing the Jews to help them understand what David, a prophet, saw concerning Jesus the Christ. We still have the above question that I raised as the question of the text.
Acts 13:23 is again the same point as above.
Dan it is futile to try and talk your way out of these scriptures but for the sake of argument lets say you are a follower of Christ, 1 John 2:4, I am sure I would be justified calling you a liar.
Well actually the futility seems to be if you do not believe Jesus to be the Christ. This seems to be part of your argument, for it fills the passages you keep asking me to address. I agree with the passages, Jesus is the Christ. As I said before I am grateful to God for my salvation through His Son. I am sorry and saddened that it came because the Jews could not accept Jesus as the Christ but I will not deny the gift of God given to me, I am going to hold onto it as more precious than gold or silver (1 Peter 1:7). Does this make me a liar? Lets look at 1 John 2:4. Lets start with the context again.
“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.” (1 John 2:1–6 ESV)
Well John is talking about Jesus being the sacrifice that is made once for all to end the curse of sin. And well look it is for the whole world! Again this is my point, Jesus is the Christ who saves not only the Jews but also the Gentiles! You are speaking more on the point of commandments. What did Jesus command? (we have to ask this because Jesus is the subject of the verse you quoted, so when it says ‘his’ it is Jesus’).
““This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” (John 15:12 ESV) But this doesn’t deny the greatest commandment but includes it as Jesus points out. “But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”” (Matt 22:34–40 ESV)
Jesus doesn’t deny but says that the commandments are good, because they stem from the first, the love towards God. About the law Jesus says: ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matt 5:17 ESV)
So are you justified in calling me (a follower of Jesus the Christ, who loves God because I am called into a covenant with Him through the blood of Jesus) a liar? Well I don’t think so if you are doing it from 1 John! In fact the evidence is stacking up against you if you do not have Jesus as your Christ! Do you?
There are more that just the 10 commandments if you didn’t know. I am 99.997% you celebrate christmas, and easter? Do you know these are pagan celebrations spoken of in the Bible.
Yes, I do know there are more than 10 commandments, I have already mentioned that, if you missed it please read through this again. But what is the point of you asking?
Are you trying to prove that I am not a Jew through the flesh? Are you saying knowledge makes you a Jew, that by knowing all the laws means you are saved? (these are rhetorical to prove that your question is a personal attack to try and make me look silly, we shall see on the later when Jesus returns).
Actually I do know that the church (notice not capitalized) instituted this to combat pagan rituals and festivals. It was a propaganda act to promote Christianity and replace pagan ritual with true worship of God. To lead people to know the God revealed in the Law, the Prophets, and the New Testament. But Jews also celebrate unscriptural days! For example Hanukah.
On the Christmas thing I celebrate Jesus’ death and Resurrection everday. But if the government wants to keep a public holiday so we can have the day free from work to celebrate Jesus death and Resurrection I will take it. It doesnt mean i support pagan festivals. In fact the Christian celebration of Jesus is far from pagan, it is the celebration of God’s redeeming act in Jesus.
I’m sure you eat pork, and shrimp too, Isaiah 65:3-4. Jeremiah 31:31. Do you understand what you’re reading? That is not a view or an opinion.
Yes Pork is lovely, o and I love shrimp. But I am not a ritualistic Jew so should it matter? Tell me do you wear clothing made from more than two types of material (Leviticus 19:19)?
Isaiah 65:3-5 says: “a people who provoke me to my face continually, sacrificing in gardens and making offerings on bricks; who sit in tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat pig’s flesh, and broth of tainted meat is in their vessels; who say, “Keep to yourself, do not come near me, for I am too holy for you.” These are a smoke in my nostrils, a fire that burns all the day.” (Is 65:3–5 ESV)
I do not believe I was saying that I do any of these things. In fact I can honestly say that I do not say these things. Are you calling m a liar again? Are you saying that without knowing I am sacrificing and profaning God without knowing? But I delight in the laws and precepts of God. I find peace and mercy in God’s law’s and revelation (psalm 19, Proverbs 1:2-7, 9:10).
You use Jeremiah 31:31 to prove your point again I think it proves mine. ““Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,” (Jer 31:31 ESV). Jesus brings in a new and better covenant “And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” (Luke 22:20; 2 Cor 3:6 ESV). Since you addressed the new covenant with the eating of pork I must than go to Peter’s address about food (Peter understands the Jewish food laws and thought they applied for the Christian as well till God taught him otherwise.)
“The next day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. And he became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance and saw the heavens opened and something like a great sheet descending, being let down by its four corners upon the earth. In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” But Peter said, “By no means, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean.” And the voice came to him again a second time, “What God has made clean, do not call common.” This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven. Now while Peter was inwardly perplexed as to what the vision that he had seen might mean, behold, the men who were sent by Cornelius, having made inquiry for Simon’s house, stood at the gate and called out to ask whether Simon who was called Peter was lodging there. And while Peter was pondering the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are looking for you. Rise and go down and accompany them without hesitation, for I have sent them.” And Peter went down to the men and said, “I am the one you are looking for. What is the reason for your coming?” And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.” So he invited them in to be his guests. The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. And on the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.” And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered. And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.” And Cornelius said, “Four days ago, about this hour, I was praying in my house at the ninth hour, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. Send therefore to Joppa and ask for Simon who is called Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea.’ So I sent for you at once, and you have been kind enough to come. Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.” So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. Now the apostles and the brothers who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcision party criticized him, saying, “You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them.” But Peter began and explained it to them in order: “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me. Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air. And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’ But I said, ‘By no means, Lord; for nothing common or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ But the voice answered a second time from heaven, ‘What God has made clean, do not call common.’ This happened three times, and all was drawn up again into heaven. And behold, at that very moment three men arrived at the house in which we were, sent to me from Caesarea. And the Spirit told me to go with them, making no distinction. These six brothers also accompanied me, and we entered the man’s house. And he told us how he had seen the angel stand in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa and bring Simon who is called Peter; he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”” (Acts 10:9–11:18 ESV)
According to God I am allowed to eat what ever food God has declared good (1 Timothy 4:1-5).
1 Kings 8:53, “seperate them from among all the people of the earth to be thine inheritance”. His word is everlasting and unchanging.
On this I again refer you to my points I have already made above.
Dan do not be silly face the truth, the scriptures do not lie.
This is true it is the false teachers and prophets that teach lies. I have faced the truth as revealed by God, again my plea is for you to do the same.
One more thing the “J” didn’t come into the english language untill the 1400’s so how do you come up with Jesus or Jehovah?
Now this question and another above you raise over words. So does not having a J in a language that didn’t exist till ~1400 years after Jesus means……? What is the point? The greek language is clear on who the English speaking call Jesus. Should we all wonder about vowels now? Hebrew didn’t have written vowels. Are we to discredit the Old Testament because in English we have vowels but the original Hebrew law didn’t? I don’t think so. So why draw on this?
Also etymology is good, but if you want to address an issue in the text lets use the original! For it is what we are trying to understand.
Something for you to ponder. Oh get yourself a real Bible where the scriptures haven’t been watered down.
As I have mentioned before I used the original texts. If you find a discrepancy with the original texts please mention it but the translations don’t water anything down, they try to capture the original meaning in contemporary language. Speaking of which the KJV is not contemporary language! I think you want to confuse people and now you are getting desperate to try and hang to anything to cause an argument, which I did before mention if you were seeking one don’t bother commenting.
This fun Dan, lets do this more often.
I have had fun. I hope you enjoyed reading and searching the depths of the heart and mind of God. My prayer is that I have not caused you injury but reproved a wise man (Proverbs 9:7-9)
This Sunday on Australian ABC TV there is a show that is titled “
). The Anglican Church does teach spiritual things when the Bible addresses it! Most people have a problem with Anglicans not teaching enough on the Spirit. I have been involved in both Anglican and Pentecostal Churches. I have seen both sides and I agree totally with neither. The problems with both sides is either too much emphasis or to little.
